Michael KirstMichael Kirst, president of the Land Board of Education, says the process that resulted in his confirmation, which involved getting a two-thirds vote in the country Senate, was "useful" in getting to know Republicans in the Legislature and has laid the background for cooperation on a number of issues in the future.

Kirst is 1 of the few people in state government to render to the same post he occupied  during Governor Brown's get-go stint every bit governor.  (Another is Mary Nichols, reappointed past Governor Brown as chairman of the California Air Resources Board.)  In an interview with EdSource'southward Louis Freedberg, Kirst reflected on how much has inverse in education and on the lath since he last held this role 3 decades ago—and how much hasn't.  He and other board members receive a $100 per diem for their labors.

Ane of the biggest changes is the large corporeality of time  the board spends on lease schools. Kirst  says Governor Brown's elimination of the Secretarial assistant of Didactics position from his cabinet has not made a difference to the lath'south functioning, although he worries that college education may not be sufficiently represented in the state'southward executive branch. He also never saw as much public engagement during his start term on the board as the sustained outpouring of back up by parents and others organized by the Los Angeles-based Parent Revolution before this year for a state law allowing a majority of parents to plough their schools into charter schools.

Freedberg: The first time you became president of the State Board of Education was 33 years agone. How have things changed since then?

Kirst:  In that location are some things that are unlike, and then some things that surprised me that haven't changed. Among the things that haven't changed is that in that location's hardly any more than engineering in the classroom now and then there was then. Nosotros were at the beginning of the technological age so, and we had a few computers in the back of classrooms. And then I go back on the board in 2011, go to the classrooms, and there are (over again) a few computers in the back of the room. I would have thought in all these intervening years that there would have been a considerable transformation of the technological delivery of education services, and that has non happened.

Freedberg: Governor Brown did away with the Secretarial assistant of Education position in his cabinet. For many years, before you assumed your position terminal year, the State Lath of Education had been at odds with the governor and the Section of Pedagogy. But when Governor Dark-brown took role, there were all kinds of predictions that, once and for all, these different sectors of government were going to work together. Has it worked out that way?

Kirst: They're working out very well. Our arrangement is unusual. Governor Dark-brown cut about twenty positions in the Secretary of Pedagogy'due south office, and some more positions in the inner office and the horseshoe (the U-shaped corridor of offices in the governor's office in the State Capitol). For K–12 pedagogy, he now has a direct line between his role and the State Board president and the executive director of the State Lath, Sue Burr. And then the State Board not only is in the middle of policy, just nosotros're also in the middle of legislation, in that there are a hundred or more than bills that accept come up to the Governor. Sue Burr and I worked with him directly on legislative matters on some of these bills.  So that is very different.

Freedberg: Are you in affect with Governor Chocolate-brown on a regular basis? During this budget mess he has had to bargain with, how much has he been able to focus on education?

Kirst:  He focused on it intensively in the last two-to-three weeks of the legislative season and (will be doing so) in the next three-to-4 weeks going ahead, because either he has to sign the bills or they become law without his signature.

Prior to that, he was involved in particular bug, but mainly involved in budget issues, and in that area he works heavily with the Department of Finance. When I came back to the board, I was told "you are part of the Executive Branch of government."  That's very dissimilar from when I started 33 years ago.

When I was on the board before, we were sort of like a board to Wilson Riles, the Land Superintendent. Now nosotros're part of the Executive Co-operative, like the Executive Office of the President in Washington D.C. Then we are paired with the Department of Finance and the State Board of Pedagogy, and some people in the governor's inner office.

That'southward a tremendous reversal from the past when I worked with the aforementioned governor.

Freedberg:  You lot said that about 20 positions were eliminated from the Secretary of Instruction's office. Tin can you eliminate 20 positions without it having an affect?

Kirst: Well, so far we're performance well with a much smaller staff. I think that the Secretarial assistant of Education's part became just another layer that people had to work through. Brown doesn't similar lots of layers and bureaucratic, up-the-line kind of things. People said then information technology wouldn't be missed, and I don't meet that information technology is beingness missed at this point.

An area where it could be missed would be in higher pedagogy, for which there is all the same no administrative construction in the Executive Branch of Government. But for M–12, I think we're able to run with a lot fewer layers and check points, and a lot less conflict in terms of 3 or four people arguing over turf.

Freedberg:  One of the issues that you didn't have to bargain with in 1978 was lease schools. At the board'south last coming together a big chunk of the day was taken up with charter schools, fifty-fifty though it merely deals with about v percent of the kids in the country. Admittedly, v percent is a lot of kids, but it'south not a 100 percent.

Kirst:  Yes, charter schools are the biggest improver since I came back to the board. The matter we spent the least time on compared to the old days consumes 21 pct of our expenditures, and its called special instruction. And so we're spending less time on that, and more on charters.

Freedberg: Do you come across more or less public engagement than during your earlier term on the board?

Kirst: Engagement still comes upwardly effectually particular issues. And so the parent empowerment issue brought in busloads of students and parents from the Los Angeles expanse. I can't recall an consequence in my whole terminal tenure where we had that many people coming to the board in sequent months.

Nosotros have also shifted a lot from existence a wholesale policy organisation, to existence what I telephone call a retail organization.  We're making decisions on specific schools, and specific districts, and this gives usa less fourth dimension and energy to focus on broad policy. I am worried that we volition lose the broad policy focus, which is the board's essential rationale in the state'due south constitution.

Freedberg:  Your confirmation in the state Senate did require getting a two-thirds vote. Remarkably, later a little bit of politics behind the scenes, the Republicans did back up you and all the Governor Brown's appointees. How did that happen? At that place's some speculation that there had to have been some agreement or deals made behind the scenes as a kind of quid pro quo.

Kirst: Well, that really has to be answered in detail by people in the Governor's Office. They are responsible for getting their nominees confirmed. And the Republican leadership did desire to encounter directly with the Governor, and they did encounter with him. I did meet with the Republican leadership on some issues, but you'll really have to ask the Governor's role that was in charge of our confirmations. We were really not running that prove.

Freedberg: And then you weren't asked to agree to certain things in exchange for your confirmation? Or were at that place more wide ranging kinds of discussions?

Kirst: They were pretty broad ranging, more concerns that were general, more generic questions. There were a few specific questions. Only in the terminate, really just the Governor can provide assurances to the Republicans about what they will be interested in.

Freedberg: But practise you retrieve the fact that the Republicans did come on board sends some signal that there might be some bipartisan collaboration and cooperation in terms of educational activity and education reform going forward?

Kirst: I promise so. Board members were interviewed by various state Senators who asked us to come across with them. The Republican group was particularly interested in career and technical pedagogy, and we take a chance of forging some common policy there.  I've talked to State Superintendent Tom Torlakson near that every bit well.  Nosotros're going to try some bi-partisan things (that came) out of this confirmation process—which may have been very useful in getting u.s. to know the senators, and what some of their concerns are.

Freedberg: Compared to 33 years ago, the whole fiscal landscape is transformed. Does this arrive very difficult for y'all to advance real reforms when economic survival is what school districts are facing?

Kirst:  I went through this earlier when Proposition 13 passed in 1978 and I was president of the Board. We went through some severe cutbacks at that time. A lot of the school districts went downwardly to five periods a day. Merely we were able to do things in that era. So while schools are extremely hard pressed, I think we'll be able to make some moves forward.

If we continue to go downwards (in school funding), some of the conditions might exist fifty-fifty worse than last time. For example, we take been asked to approve a waiver from Inglewood (Unified School District) to increase class sizes to 38 as a base of operations level. That is across anything I ever saw in the '78 to '82 era. So information technology's problematic, just at this betoken I think we tin move forward.

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